Hate-triotism redux

Not much more to say about this just now.  I knew I hadn’t invented the term and went looking to see if I could figure out where I’d heard it before.  So in the name of fairness, it looks like Michael Moore inserted the term into our national discourse back in ’04.

I’m no Michael Moore fan, but he got this one right.

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15 Responses to Hate-triotism redux

  1. armyanimaldoc says:

    Yes, Michael Morons

  2. armyanimaldoc says:

    Moore is on the record as saying he hates Bush and his administration. So does the CCPM. When conservatives hate you or your ideas because you genuinely attack them and their ideals, they are hate-mongerers, driven by hate and driven to act on it. CCVM has not acted violently nor threatened violence, neither have they threatened to suppress your group by crying “harrassment” (= wolf) and whining about it. They have showed restraint when you have not, even though Karen’s LTEs claim otherwise with no substantiation, to include going against the police reports, he he. Yeah, you’ll get far with that argument. All human emotions you display are completely legit and in play, but rational responses by your opposition are subhuman? You preach peace to the wrong folks and legitimize the hate by Islamofacists. You offer rationale for “why the terrorists hate us”, but they really hate us for the moral depravity that folks in your camp espouse and live by. You march side-by-side with them in your “Bush Derangement Syndrome” (that means you hate him) with radical Muslims, but you don’t realize that your ideas and your very lives would be the first to perish under Ahmadinejad or any other resurging caliphate. So let me coin a term for you guys…Neo-COMs (as in neo-communists). I think you are a Michael Moore fan. Tell us, in your subject matter expertise, how “he got this one right”? Oh, because you say so, I get it. Ask Michael about his stocks in Halliburton and big oil and how Jabba-the-Hutt-personified can talk about gluttony.

  3. Bob Sacamano says:

    “Michael Moore is a culinary Pinocchio – every time he lies he gains a pound.” – Andrew Breitbart

    Way to go Army Doc! I echo your comments and your sentiments.

  4. sethkahn says:

    Should have seen it coming…And all this because I felt obligated to figure out where I’d heard a word and give due credit for it.

    Bob, nice to see ya.

  5. Bob Sacamano says:

    Seth,

    Nice to see you too. Boy, do I love this back-and-forth dialogue. I recently wrote a paper about Moore and included that quote in it. No doubt his movies draw viewer ship, but I’m not all that convinced that his facts and motives are above board. What do you think?

  6. armyanimaldoc says:

    Thanks Bob. I’ve been searching the internet far and wide for any evidence of harrassment, threats of violence, or actual violence by the CCVM against CCPM. The only hits I could find were this blog and LTEs by Karen Porter. No police reports, no legitimate, documented claims. I did find evidence of the police reports against 2 members of CCPM where the charges were dropped by the CCVM member. I also have a vivid memory of being called a baby killer in front of 2 of my 3 children – one of those 2 kids has the same memory. The little one doesn’t remember, but he was crying and screaming at the person when it happened. I wonder why the kids don’t like you guys either, but they seem to have a sixth sense for assessing questionable characters. Prove any of it, Seth.

    Another thing, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but judging by your first and last name, you are a fellow member of the tribe (Jewish). If that is true, your opinions about the war condemn your own progeny, but thankfully, you’re in no position to condemn mine, and I’m in the position to defend them. Maybe your kids will have the decency to thank me later since you don’t. I once thought as you do, and it’s only post-9-11 that I’ve learned to give as much thanks to Vietnam Veterans that you never gave them on their return. I’m almost ashamed to have ever held that Oliver Stone indoctrinated animosity toward them. I realize that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, you are not entitled to your own facts, and your opinions (such as they are) have no validity when they are not grounded in basis of fact. When you have spent 6+ years in the military working in chem and bio defense with multiple higher degrees of expertise in that area, deployed to the war in question, held beliefs on the other side of the aisle in the past, and aware of information not available to the public (or when it is made available like Senator Santorum declassifying WMDs FOUND in Iraq), then your “opinions” might be on equal footing. Demonizing Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Bill O’Reilly, Mark Levin, et al. when you likely never listen to anything other than selected out-of-context sound bites also holds no water.

    The opposite of left-wing blame-America-first is not Fox News. Everyone likes to think they are “centered”, just like everyone likes to think they have a sense of humor, or that their kids are cute…but that can’t all possibly be true. Like the expression “50% of people are below average.” Someone so polarized to one extreme views anyone who may be just about centered as the polar opposite because your view of reality is so skewed. If you think your viewpoints are so mainstream, ask yourself why you’ve changed nothing in almost 8 years. You are the anti-war answer to PETA. Just because you have a louder screaming voice doesn’t mean the majority holds your views. That silent majority is beginning to realize your true nature and intentions. Wow, I feel better. Good night, sleep tight, and dream of President Obama (meeting with Ahmadinejad and surrendering Israel and Iraq to the Mahdi, amnesty for illegals, Sherwood Forest socialism, European failed health care, Wright, Farrakhan, Weather Underground, and friends) and sugar plums dancing in your head.

  7. sethkahn says:

    Facts? No, he’s often not above-board. He plays fast and loose with evidence, as it suits his purposes, and certainly ignores any evidence that doesn’t suit his arguments.

    Motives? That’s a lot more complicated. I try to stay away from analyzing people’s psyches, especially when I’ve never had any contact with them. It’s easy to make guesses and fling around innuendo, and I’m not interested in playing that game.

    The only point I’d make about his motives is this–he gets attacked for being too liberal, but in fact he’s not all that liberal at all. He certainly hates George W. Bush, but that’s not the same thing. Let’s not forget that Moore is a card-carrying member of the NRA, which is hardly a signature liberal move, right? He’s much more a muckraker, like a 1920s yellow journalist.

  8. Bob Sacamano says:

    “…and dream of President Obama (meeting with Ahmadinejad and surrendering Israel and Iraq to the Mahdi, amnesty for illegals, Sherwood Forest socialism, European failed health care, Wright, Farrakhan, Weather Underground, and friends) and sugar plums dancing in your head.”

    Armydoc makes some good points here. These are all things Obama stands for/represents/favors and ALL of them can only hurt America and weaken her standing in the world. Basically, Obama is a socialist and if you look at the countries who espouse socialism, they are void of strong faith and the motivation to succeed via a free market economy, i.e. why become a doctor if medicine is socialized?

  9. sethkahn says:

    Obama a socialist? Please. He’s more liberal than, say, Rick Santorum or John McCain, but he’s hardly a socialist. He’s not about government ownership of private industry, which is what socialists favor. That’s just a hyperbolic attack thrown around by people who ought to know better.

    The only one of those Obama actually supports is meeting with Iran’s leadership. The rest of that is all hype.

    By the way, Bob, I thought you were “politically neutral” or some such phrase you used on the blog a couple of months ago. Doesn’t sound like it to me…

  10. Bob Sacamano says:

    Seth,

    In the past few months I’ve had a huge change of heart and find myself agreeing more with folks on the right…I decided it was time to make a decision on where I stand and after much self education on politics, etc. I find that my values align with the conservative point of view. I disagree with you about Obama – his stance on raising taxes and his ideas for healthcare are decidedly socialist. He plans to raise the capital gains tax by at least 10%. Also, comparing Obama to Santorum is kind of ridiculous – Santorum is a Reagan conservative and Obama is a left wing leftist. McCain, on the other hand, is really a moderate Democrat.

  11. sethkahn says:

    Bob, if you’re drifting right, that’s your business. All I’m saying is that we need to be careful with the labels. Raising taxes isn’t “socialist.” Extending health care isn’t socialist. Socialism means something very specific–government ownership of the means of production. Obama doesn’t advocate that.

    You’re right that the Santorum comparison was ridiculous; that was on purpose. I certainly don’t see McCain as a Democrat, although you’re right that he’s more moderate than many Republicans. I’ll be curious to see how his policy statements change in the face of a real campaign against somebody who he really fundamentally disagrees with, and with the nomination in his pocket.

  12. Marcia says:

    Maybe not outright threats, but have I’m certain you have read Midnight Blue’s blog and the Sheepdogs own site. The comments left speak volumes and the majority certainly don’t sound friendly; sound more like people who want trouble. Let me tell you how I found this site, along with the Sheepdog site as well as Midnight Blue.

    My father wrote a letter to the editor. This is a man in his 70’s, who served his country, who is disappointed with where this country is going. He called me at work to tell me, so I googled his name and letter to the editor and daily local news.

    What I got was some American Sheepdog site, but there was my dad’s name. I clicked. And was horrified. My father has absolutely nothing to do with either the CCPM or CCVM so I was stunned to see the hate-filled garbage that was being printed about my father, who these people would be blessed to call a friend, let alone even know him. I wanted to leave a reply on their site, but in reading through the comments, I realized these are not very nice people and the kind that yes, if their own members comments are that cruel about a person they don’t even know? Yes, I could definitely believe they would harass me. I wish my father hadn’t used his name. It saddens me that my fellow human beings can sink to such depths. For the record, to the blog writer of this blog, you are being portrayed at one of their web sites as hate-filled or something along those lines. Having read this post and the prior, I have yet to see the hate I saw in just comments alone on those other sites, but perhaps I will keep reading. I have noticed some anger in some of the posters leaving replies, though they appear to be from the same group/groups?

    Sad.

  13. armyanimaldoc says:

    Marcia, in the sciences we have a certain way of doing things called a scientific method. Along with this scientific method of providing proof of anything, we have to cite our references. You’ve cited nothing here but more conjecture without substantiation. Provide specifics or your point is meaningless. What “hate-filled garbage”? What made you believe they would “harrass” you and how?

    I agree that Seth, as per this blog, is not nearly “hate-filled”, although I question that he loves his country (= patriotism) or genuinely supports the troops. I didn’t attack him, and he’s commendable for even printing my response when it’s his blog. Just as I wouldn’t define myself as hateful or an angry person, I am legitimately entitled to hate something or someone when justified and to be angry and even express it without it ruling and defining me in total. As for the CCPM, this blog is only one member’s media involvement in that effort. Karen Porter’s letters to the editor are fraught with hate and anger, disguised by similar wild unsubstantiated claims that you echo.

    The CCVM “sound more like people who want trouble?” They were the ones who exercised restraint when Skye’s camera was slapped out of her hands while held to her face by a CCPM member (on the police record). The same perpetrators further shoved a police officer (also on the record), the police officers Karen Porter claims to need to defend her and CCPM against CCVM. A member of CCPM called me a “baby killer” in front of my children. You have noticed anger in some of the posters on here leaving replies? I think I appropriately spoke of anger I once had for the person who said that to me after my deployment where I helped children of Iraq, as well as our own, I even despise that person for doing that. Beyond that, what has been displayed here that is irrational and illegitimate anger? “Sad” is your debate tactic.

  14. Marcia says:

    I wasn’t trying to debate anything. I explained how I found all three sites, or blogs, or whatever they are. Thing is, my father didn’t write a letter in response to your group, nor the writer of this blog (Seth Kahn, it appears). However, when I located his name, his letter to the editor of the Daily Local News (which would be his local paper, not mine) and the website of a group calling themselves American Sheepdogs…well, you are free to peruse their website and subsequent comments yourself. I don’t know this Skye, Karen or anyone else you have mentioned. Neither does my dad. That being said, I can certainly recognize hatred and anger when I read it, and I tell you, the things said about my father, who is a veteran of this country and is a true patriot, well, left me cold. And sad. My father never called you or any of your members a baby killer. He doesn’t even know who you all are. Yet, a lot of you seemed fit to say horrible things about a 70+ man you have no knowledge of, simply because he expressed his opinion, and this same group of folks commenting assumed incorrectly that he had something to do with this war you believe you are fighting here in the Motherland.

    Having read over some of this particular blog, I am at a loss to find the hate, ignorance, intolerance and cruelty I found in the comments section alone on both American Sheepdogs and Midnight Blue. As for this peace movement out of Chester County, well, I’m from Berks personally and it doesn’t seem like they have any sort of forum on their web site that works, so I cannot in good conscience comment on their comments, etc.

    To Mr. Kahn, my apologies for any grief my posting here may have caused.

  15. sethkahn says:

    Marcia: I appreciate the thought, but it’s no problem for me to say whatever you want here as long as everybody plays by the same basic rules–nothing foul or abusive. I understand why armyanimaldoc and his brothers and sisters are angry at people who oppose the war effort. I don’t expect to convince them not to be angry at us.

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